With Christmas only a week away, Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi are cementing their names near the top of the Naughty List by threatening a government shutdown rather than allow funding for the border wall that President Trump is demanding.
Their gambit carries more risk than usual, owing to the fact that Trump is entirely willing to see the government shut down and take credit for it.
It's a bit unclear exactly what form such a shutdown would take, as Democrats are still smarting from the last time they pulled this stunt and became laughingstocks for punishing the public by closing national parks, monuments (including the Vietnam Memorial), and forbidding families from looking at Old Faithful or Mount Rushmore.
Here's what we had to say about government shutdowns way back in 2013...
The question of whether or not a border wall will be funded is more than just a "tinkle contest," as Nancy Pelosi would say. Consider this first hand report from a good friend of ours:
I was given a personal tour of our Arizona southern border today by a border patrol agent. Basically, not much of a border. Don’t believe what the MSM and politicians tell you about our secure border. This gent asked me to share photos and what he saw. They caught around 35% of what they actually "saw." There aren’t enough agents to cover the entire southern border. Drones don’t work if you can’t get to the bad guys fast enough.
Last night, he spotted 30 illegals, called in, they caught 7 at night and two more in the morning. Guess what, 21 got away. Thousands of them got away daily, he said. There is no such thing as natural barriers. They will go over 8,000 ft elevation to enter our country at will. When Pelosi and Schumer said we don’t need the wall, they’re full of sh*t. He also stated that the majority of the agents favor a gov shutdown. Middle easterners are caught weekly and those are the ones caught.
I could write a chapter on my four hours down there. I felt strange as if I was in another country. He often referred to the area as occupied land. I was downright depressed at the end of the day. Final note, these border patrol agents work nonstop day and night to keep the bad guys out with very little resources, but they show up 24/7 to keep us safe.
Here's a picture of a section of the existing "border wall" that our friend took:
|You MAY not have an effective wall if it needs to be bolted to the ground to keep illegals from stealing it.|
Can we actually find labor to build it, regardless of funding?
@Keith: Well, the MSM claims the "refugees" are willing to work... ;-)
Army Corps of Engineers and Navy SeaBees can build the wall.
Complete the fence. Shoot anybody who tries to climb it. Mount the bleached skulls on stakes as a warning to others.
Government shutdown? Who cares. They should shut down the whole city of Washington DC then we'd all be better off.
Some sort of border barrier is obviously needed, and no doubt there would be plenty of people to build it but I'm not sure just a wall will suffice because the illegals will find a way in no matter what. After all they are ILLEGAL. But, existing laws need to be enforced and stupidity like "catch and release" has to stop.
A few years back, some cities decided to stop their problem by making it illegal to rent, lease, or sell a home to anyone undocumented. It worked, and the cities were rid of their illegals within a few months.
Uncle Sam, under the Obama regime, didn't like this, sued, and the cities were forced to change their laws.
Building a wall, and allowing local communities to create laws making the housing of invaders illegal, will solve the problem in a short time.
In Arizona there is an actual wall in the area of certain towns like Nogales & Naco and it's proven fairly effective, but when you get away from towns much of the border has fencing exactly like that pictured. The idea was that the old rails used as fencing would prevent vehicles from being driven across the border. One of my friends was driving an ATV along the border near Lochiel and came across an extended Mexican family from both sides of the border having a picnic. They had laid pieces of plywood on the rail fencing so vehicles could be driven across. Some ideas look better on paper than they do in practice.
Government shutdown? No embedded apparatchiks spending their time on our dime, thinking if new federal regulations to justify their existence? Traffic volume that is a pleasure to drive in, not a no holds barred fight? I'll take that.
The democrats just need to be honest. They oppose any such wall as voter suppression - democrat voter suppression, to be specific - NOT some humanitarian issue, or even a fiscal issue. THAT'S why they are fighting so hard against the wall. I hear they are also mounting a campaign to have all fences removed from cemeteries as well...
I live along the southern border down in the Rio Grande Valley in Texas. We have the Rio Grande River, but it isn't much of a barrier in stopping illegal alien traffic. The trash from the rafts made litter the river's shoreline. The true barrier is the dense brush thicket - many illegals die attempting to cross the area which has very little natural water sources and high heat.
I don't blame the illegals which are attempting to better their lives. I blame the politicians who encourage and make is easier for these individuals to come here. Our priority is to help AMERICANS first, then foreigners. Our people should be the priority.
I used to drive down across the Arizona border to Rocky Point (Puerto Penasco) Mexico often. I have not done so in years now but was always impressed by the placement of the Luke Air Force Base Bombing Range just north of the border. I used to stop and watch them blow the hell out of old planes and trucks spread around the desert.
Absolutely no need for a wall there. Instead there are plenty of Peligro! (Danger) signs spaced along the border. Those and the near constant sound of exploding ordinances worked quite well in keeping illegals on their own damn side of the border.
Perhaps that range should be extended to the east and the west.
I just hope that the shutdown includes the gubbermint paychecks.
@ Fred Ciampi: You are aware that would also include members of our armed forces, ICE,....?
Fish; Oops, everyone EXCEPT our armed forces. In fact, give all those extra paychecks to every active member. Semper Fi.
The literature on impeachment is all about US House initiates; US Senates tries the case; the accused is usually assume to be the President. It's not so clear who (or what offices) actually can be impeached. Meanwhile with using the I-word word... Is IS clear that each branch of Congress (and many states as well) can eject their own from congress. We will have the senate. Eject Schumer from the Senate next year on grounds of endangering the nation with his positions and actions.. on any other illegal & constitutional blunders he's made... even throw in being lying slime ball as the goat so that obviously true charged can be dropped as a kind gesture of bipartisan unity. Get that ball rolling. It might even get Pelosi to shut up.
@Judi King: "I'm not sure just a wall will suffice because the illegals will find a way in no matter what."
We should parrot the left when they talk about ideas restricting gun ownership: "Well if it saves just one child, we should build the wall."
Shut it down and leave it shut down for months. I'm done with the stupid infighting. I'm sorry for our elderly who depend on Government resources, but this has gone beyond parody.
Chuck and Nancy have chosen this hill to die on and they are digging their heels in over 3.5 billion dollars out of a 4 trillion dollar (severely bloated) budget. They want another Continuing Resolution so they can kick the can down the road despite Trump specifically saying he wouldn't sign another one.
I'm sick of people that don't give a shit about America being "In Charge" in DC.
@Tots said.... "I'm sorry for our elderly who depend on Government resources"
...most of whom are already senators and representatives...
And anudder thing; Tots said about 'being in charge'. It's time the senators and congerspeople (Pogo) stopped thinking that they are the ones in charge in Dee See. Everyone of those dimwits (and I'm being kind, there are three kinds of wits; dim, half, and nit) like to think of themselves as rulers and leaders. They are not. They're our representatives, no more, no less. It is about time they started to do what we, the people want, not what they and their puppet masters' want. So there. Now, where did I put my moonshine?
I can't understand why we need a "wall," when an infrastructure of laws could/should be in place that would punish employers (huge fines, jail time, etc.) from hiring ILLEGAL immigrants. Also, laws that reward illegals, such as free healthcare, dental care, food stamps and other freebies should be tossed out. If the Democrats and liberal Republicans wanted to, our nation's sovereignty (which is at stake) would be re-established.
As it is now, we are rapidly becoming another Europe, what with the influx of Muslims and others who don't give a damn about our country. They are not here to make the country better, but to "get what's theirs," even if it includes turning the country into another Afghanistan and making slaves out of us serf-taxpayers.
California is an oozing, cancerous sore on the skin of the nation; my wife and I are now exploring northern Arizona as an escape destination. I am a native Californian and never thought I would even think of moving out of what has become a liberal cesspool. An all-liberal state legislature will be installed in January.
Of course, any such ideas are deemed "immoral" by such luminaries as Crazy Nancy and Chuck Schumer, because without those insane laws, they would be in serious trouble politically.
Pelosi and Schumer talked about border security with the cameras rolling, nice move PDJT! However, they have no interest in the wall. Asinine and ridiculous and diametrically opposed statements. They are not serious, and anyone who is serious can see right through their bullshit.
Alfonso, I, too, was a Californian but after moonbeam's first eight years started to look for a way out. We've been in Appalachia for 30 years now and love it for all the right reasons. Now moonbeam and his ilk are finishing the job he started back then.
Besides forcing the Democrats to capitulate on Border Wall Funding, there will be a secondary benefit to a "Gov't. Shutdown". People will see that the services suspended by the "Shutdown" are largely inconsequential. Federal Government services are not that important to most working Americans.
I personally enjoy government shutdowns. They provide proof that the sun still rises without micromanagement from Washington, the laws of physics still work, and best of all, capitalism still functions with great efficiency. In fact, the real world functions so well without direct government management, the government actually has to go out of its way to invent ways to convince people that it doesn't, just further making my point.
And for the minority of people who do find that their lives are being held up by a government shutdown, it's an opportunity to re-evaluate their lives as to how they became so dependent upon the state and their fellow citizens.
And as for the crony capitalism that's held up because of a shutdown, I only wish there was a way to keep it going indefinitely.
The Wall: Last week I saw an article bemoaning the wall because it would mean death to butterflies.
My immediate response was: You really want to know what is going to destroy wildlife habitat? The hundreds-of-millions of homes that will have to be built to accommodate the 2-billion or so people who'd show up if they could.
When will we get an honest debate about immigration? Will it continue to wait until the elites who currently benefit socially and economically either no longer benefit socially or economically, or can no longer afford to insulate themselves from the undesirable effects?
This is what I hope Trump is staging for 2020, an honest debate about immigration that both the GOP and Democrats have refused to allow.
Fleeing the Fleeced Golden State: I was a native. But by the late '80s, I was seeing the writing on the wall. At the time, most of my clientele was small manufacturers who were leaving for lower taxes and less regulatory punishment elsewhere. Then I noticed it was the upper-middle class that was leaving. (My parents and siblings included) When I'd point out this trend to my Progressive intellectual friends, they said this wasn't a problem since the population of the state was still growing. I'd then point out that every highly skilled and educated high-5 to 6-figure family that moved out was being replaced by low-to-no skilled and illiterate low-to-no-figure income family that unlike the former, would be making great demands upon the social services sector. For that observation, one would be called "racist".
By the '90s it was clear that economically, my future there was limited. It was unlikely that unless I became a dot-com billionaire (not for lack of trying) that my income would continue to increase proportionally with the cost of living, while I was finding that the quality of life I enjoyed was inevitably going to slip. What's the point of living in the promised land if you could neither afford to enjoy it or couldn't get to where you wanted to enjoy it anyway? By the late '90s, I was making plans for my escape, and didn't look back.
Today 20-years later under one-party rule, California has ironically become everything the blue-state socialists claim is awful under capitalism; A super-wealthy upper and upper-middle class and now the greatest poverty in the nation with what is left of the middle class looking for an escape. The Progressive War on the Middle Class has largely succeeded; the rich get to virtue signal while they can afford to insulate themselves from most of the consequences, the poor get subsidized, and what is left of the middle class get to suffer a degraded quality of life while paying most of the bill.
I'd say good riddance to it all except for the fact that California is now a disease, and is exporting the Progressive virus within its fleeing middle class to healthier parts of the country. They show up in my town and start advocating and voting for the same kind of insanity that turned California into the hell-hole they just escaped from. Colorado was lost decades ago. Oregon followed closely behind Washington State. Now it's Texas. How the hell does a poseur like Beto actually threaten Ted Cruz in a supposedly red state like Texas? Will a Cruz be able to fend off another Beto after another decade or less of Californication?
Government shutdown? Who cares. The Democrats obstruct everything, essentially they are being paid to do nothing anyway.
I was watching the Pelosi/Schumer/President Trump show and when President Trump took away their two major cards in play, they did not know whether to Sheit or go blind. That was hilarious.
Now, how do I get on Busty's naughty list?
Just leave the damned gates open at national parks, historic sites, wildernesses, forests, grasslands, monuments, cemeteries etc. Patrol for the basics with local city, county, & state sheriff, police, troopers, game wardens, etc. It's OUR land.
If DC doesn't want want Gov't employees working... Run them off and let them go. Don't quietly pay them later if they don't work... you bunch of deceiving assholes. See how many come back for THAT job. I am constantly keeping a log and looking forward to the next election.
OK.... so Obammy sent a pallet containing $150 billion (with a "B") in cold, hard, cash to a country that is probably our worst enemy on the planet. Nuttin' but snores emitting from the likes of "I pay people 50 cents a day to clean tunas" Pelosi and "Please get glasses that fit your nose" Schumer. Democrats like these two are truly warts on the ass of society. Strike that.... far worse than warts... more like carbuncles. Obammy, Pelosi, Schumer, and anybody else who went along with that (Clinton) should be forced to either pay it back, or to move to Iran to live in blissful harmony with their bosom buddies.
Everybody knows that government shutdowns are a joke, right? The bureaucrats and politicians keep collecting their inflated paychecks, the welfare checks keep going out, the prisons don't empty, the mail still gets delivered. All that happens is some window dressing, like spending extra money on guards at national parks to turn away visitors and give the illusion that the government is shut down. It's all a dog and pony show. They don't even withhold that 2 weeks worth of bullshit — in fact, they pile it higher and deeper.
@Keith- I'm sure we could find the labor. Granted, not all the workers will be able to speak English...
@Jim Irre- You'd certainly think they could!
@McChuck- You're right that branding and public relations will play a big role in the wall's success (grin).
@Judi King- I have no fear whatsoever about a government shutdown. The sooner and longer, the better. And a wall won't be sufficient to stop all illegal entry to our country, but I think it could make a huge dent in it.
@Jess- I agree. Ironic that it's the Left that might force us into a situation where we need to produce our papers and documentation for everyday transactions, but it may be the only way we can stem the tide of illegals.
@jpb252- It DOES seem like some plywood or timbers would do the trick to get over those "barriers."
@Fish Out of Water- I'm with you. A shutdown holds no terror for me.
@Emmentaler "If You Build It They Won't Come" Limburger- You are exactly right, sir.
@Anonymous- I don't hate the illegals either (excepting the scoundrels). But we simply can't support them all, and we do them no favor by encouraging them to attempt the life-threatening trip. There's a 7 year old girl currently in the news who would likely be alive today if there had been a wall.
@Geoff King- That sounds like a pretty effective deterrent, and at the very least we need more Peligro! signs. Sadly, this makes me think of the signs posted by the Obama administration warning Americans what areas within our own country weren't safe to travel in because the drug cartels basically ran the land. Insane.
@Fred Ciampi- That should be the FIRST thing shut down!
@Fish Out of Water & Fred Ciampi- Good point. Keep those paychecks coming to our service men and women!
After thought: If the Govt shuts down, who puts up the signs that say this and that is closed because of Govt shutdown?
When Obama shut the government down it cost taxpayers more to put guards and barricades at the Vietnam Memorial than it would have to just let it stay open. Also, Yellowstone and Grand Canyon National Parks are the only two that make more money on daily entrance fees than park payroll and operations cost, so closing them down, as they always do, also costs more than it saves.
@Rod- Wow, I love the idea of impeaching Schumer! I'm with you: if the Dems want to play the impeachment game, then let's REALLY play it!
@Boligat- It would have saved that 7 year old.
@Tots- Extremely well said.
@Emmentaler "They ain't too old til they're dead" Limburger- Well played!
@Fred Ciampi- Amen, brother! We aren't supposed to have a "ruling class" in this country, yet that's exactly how these people see themselves!
@Alfonso Bedoya- Annoyingly, part of the problem with enacting and enforcing the sort of employment laws you describe is that there are too many Republican politicians who support "cheap labor" (wink-wink) as a benefit to their fat cat donors. Until both parties are willing to put real Americans first, we're pretty much hosed.
As far as your plans to flee California, Texas is still a pretty great place to be - although Beto scared the hell out of us in November.
@TrickyRicky- Boom. Nailed it.
@Fred Ciampi- So you went from moonbeam to moonshine? That's almost poetic.
@joe jetson- Great point. During the last shutdown, the Dems had to actively think of ways to annoy and inconvenience people to make the shutdown unpleasant. And as I recall the shutdown only affected the "non-essential" personnel, which made me ask at the time "why the hell do we have ANY non-essential personnel?!"
@John the Econ- Great analysis. I hope there will be an honest debate about immigration, but the likelihood of it happening seems infinitesimal.
And your summary of what's gone wrong in California should be required reading. Bonus points for your observation that "California is now a disease," and the thoughts you attached to that truism.
@Dexter- If only the Dems truly accomplished nothing. Sadly, they manage to do a lot of damage.
@James Daily- I loved the way Trump handled the presser with Nancy and Chuck (in part because he only called them by their first names). As far as getting on Busty's naughty list, acting like a Progressive, an asshole, or both should do the job.
@Rod- I agree completely. I'm pretty sure the citizenry can manage to look at Mount Rushmore without government assistance.
@Colby Muenster- That big, fat pallet of money is a particular burr under my saddle in this argument. And how much money went into those imaginary "shovel ready jobs?" The wall could and should be funded immediately.
@Old Cannonballs- Well put!
@James Daily- Those signs will have to be put up by volunteers. And I'm ready to do my part!
@Geoff King- Great points!
As a govmint shutdown loomed before retirement while I was still a snivel servant, I did my best to keep my tech on board and designate me (da boss) as nonessential.
Several reason, one of which was she knew the functional parts (nitty gritty SQL stuff, for example) better than me (I was getting ready to turn over the helm).
My stuff was more long-term and I knew the hospital would continue to function just fine without my personal IT planning and bean-counting for two weeks.
Except the Armed Forces and ICE.
You are right and it is scary. Those of us who have been ignorant and apathetic to the truth need to wake up, educate themselves on issues and start sharing about the realities of the left with the undecided voters and the walk away candidates. This us our only hope.
The first thing that should stop in a shutdown is salary payments to all elected officials. That would be all of Congress, the President and the Vice President. Trump would hardly notice, and if Pence can't afford it Trump might even float him a loan.
If you really want to understand California and what the Progressives have done to it over the last half-century, you can't do better than reading what Victor Davis Hanson has to say on the topic. He was born and raised in California's central valley, over a hundred miles from where the wealthy and elite live and has experienced the polar change in the state like few others have. I personally know the places he speaks of and have experienced the changes myself, albeit not quite as personally as he has. Whereas I would be a visitor at these places with the luxury of returning to my affluent coastal community, at his ancestral home he's living the transition of his community into 3rd-world status.
When my parents arrived in California in the early '60s to work in the aerospace industry, housing was very affordable. The economy was great. Quality of life was excellent. They bought a house in the city where I grew up because at the time it had the best schools in the country. California was investing heavily in its infrastructure, and was reaping the benefits. But less than two decades later, my high school was graduating functional illiterates. Taxes were out-of-control. Housing was becoming less affordable, and investing in infrastructure, particularly for much needed water had become politically incorrect. And as VDH points out, the world less than an hour away from the coast was turning into the 3rd world; many areas literally indistinguishable from the barrios south of the border. Interestingly, while "nice" California was becoming over-regulated and micro-managed, the rest of the state became the wild west, almost feral.
@John the Econ: Love what you have put into words about The State of Assorted Nuts. I have thought so too that California is indeed a disease, metastasizing like cancer in the body politic yes, in Colorado and sadly now here in Northern Virginia to the point that it really belongs not with the rest of Virginia, but elsewhere.
For me, so-called progressivism, taken to what I see is its logical end, goes full circle to a return to a feudal state. And that’s progressive? As another commenter has said, that’s regressive and yes, that’s the proper label for them. Perhaps The State of Assorted Nuts is a proto, neo-feudal state now?
The smug West Coast and East Coast elites ought to read a book written years ago by the late Barbara Tuchman, A Distant Mirror, The Calamitous 14th Century, probably her greatest work and a book that if I were king, would be required reading every high schooler/college student before they could graduate.
But getting back on track, there’s one particular chapter they should read closely and heed: The Worms of the Earth Against the Lions, which chronicles various peasant revolts in the 14 Century and the ruling class response. The last paragraph of this chapter has stuck with me through the years, and it reads “The wave of insurrection passed, leaving little change in the condition of the working class. Inertia in the scales of history weighs more heavily than change. Four hundred years were to elapse before the descendants of the Maillotins seized the Bastille. “
John and Fish, right after the Great Patriotic War my parents moved to sunny & prosperous California with me and two siblings in tow. They bought a house in San Fran, dad worked and mom stayed home and had a bunch more children. After school I joined the Corps, got out went to college for six years and went to work myself. Oh, got married too. Then in the 70s (with moonbeam doing his first 8 years) I began to notice the changes in government. Skinny Jerry Brownie didn't think of himself as a governor but a ruler. His word was law!!! Look up the great Mediterranean Fruit Fly Debacle of the 70s. He cost the state agricultural economy billions of dollars. Lucky for me I had an engineering degree in a discipline that was needed in Appalachia as well as the big city. So we moved to Hillbillyland. Now we are retired in southwest VA but I can see West Virginia from my front porch. After the leaves have fallen from the trees, that is. Oh, and there are several rifle ranges nearby. And moonshine stills too. Yay.
The liberals are very much akin to arthritis on the nation. One can take a pill to alleviate some pain but there is nothing that can do for the damage done to the joints. It only gets worse, never better and you learn to live with it. Then, too, they turn every thing they can into a cess pool and tell you it is a rose garden. There is no way to diminish the smell but only to move where the stench is milder since it has inundated every facet of our lives.
When they accomplish their goal, which they will, of making the entire nation a nation completely dependent on their benevolence, they will not understand what they have done or maybe they will, but their living in the now instead of looking long range is criminal. They spend moneys of children yet unborn, putting shackles in place that cannot be broken even with migrating to a different country.
What they do not understand is the illegal and legal immigrants are trying to get away from a country where these shackles are already in place. My sons and grandchildren will see this nation turned into a Venezuela type country where there is no employment, where there is no food and unimaginable misery. This is a talk I will have with my sons this Christmas about their putting in place a plan that will secure their health and well being as we slowly descend into chaos.
The dimwitcrats do not care about the dangers to our country posed by untold numbers of welfare/job seekers that crash our borders and fail to assimilate after arriving. They don't care about the re-introduction of long-defeated diseases that are re-emerging because of the border crashers. They don't care about the untold cost$ that are borne by the hardworking taxpaying REAL Americans that are pillaged to cover: free legal representation, free medical treatment, free school, free school feedings, free food stamps, free housing voucher$, free incarceration in our jails and prisons, free (as in none and no penalty for it) driver licenses, free (as in none, and no penalty for it) car insurance, free unearned income tax credits, lowered in-state college tuition costs for "dreamers" and the list goes on and on. The cost of the wall, at $5B is probably spent on a daily basis, meaning every day, to support all the handouts given to illegal invaders and their "families". What it is really about to the dims is NEW VOTERS, potentially 40,000,000 (that is 40 million) of them. IMHO. America is OVER, and it is the fault of the treasonous Ruling Class, no matter the party.......
Build the wall, post enough guns at choke points to keep them from coming through.
Tech tip to stupid politicians: look no further than Israel, who knows how to deal with not just border jumpers, but border-jumping terrorists.
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